May EFFector ONline org Snapshot of

############                        ##########       Volume 2 Number 9

############                        ##########         May 1, 1992

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|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|                  EFFector

|                                          |                   ONline

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|              CROSSCURRENTS:              |               eff@eff.org

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|           A Snapshot of Life at          |         155 Second Street

|              EFF's Outposts              |       Cambridge, MA 02141

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|                                          |   666 Pennsylvania Ave.SE

|                                          |     Washington, DC  20003

|                                          |            (202) 544-9237

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                          

          AUSTIN CHAPTER ANNOUNCES FIRST MEMBERSHIP MEETING

                Date: Sunday, May 3rd 1992

                Time: 1:30 p.m.

                Place: Austin Technology Incubator

                      8920 Business Park Drive (off Jollyville Road).

We've been working, with Mitchell Kapor's approval, to set up an Austin 

chapter.  This Sunday it happens - we'll have our first general meeting. 

On the agenda:

MEET THE EFF - Learn what's going on. Meet the local board members

     (by the way, positions are still open on the board)! Ask

     questions. Get answers. Get input into what the Austin group

     will be doing, and the status of electronic activism nationwide.

UPDATE ON THE SECRET SERVICE CASE - Steve Jackson, the Austin game

     designer whose office was raided by the Secret Service, will

     report on the status of his case. With the backing of the EFF,

     he (and users of his BBS) have filed suit against the govern-

     ment under the First and Fourth Amendments! If this case

     succeeds, it will help secure YOUR rights as a computer user

     and citizen of the Net.

CYBERTEX CONVENTION - A year from now, the Austin EFF will hold a

     convention for BBS sysops, users, VR hackers, robot designers,

     and other citizens of Texas cyberspace . . . a Virtual Rodeo!

     Help plan - join the committee - get involved in what we hope

     will be an annual event that will draw nationwide attendance.

JOIN THE GROUP - We'll be accepting memberships. We've also got great

     T-shirts for sale for $10.00.

For more information about the EFF, or the meeting, contact

Ed Cavazos through one of the following channels:

   WWIVnet - 1@5285

   DNS - polekat@pro-smof.com.cts or polekat@tic.com

   Voice - (512) 385-2789

   BBS - The Bamboo Gardens North - (512) 385-2941 - POLEKAT

                    -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

        CROSSCURRENTS: EFF ON USENET, COMPUSERVE, AND THE WELL

The EFF currently manages three open discussion forums -- each quite 

a snippet of daily life in each of these unique global villages.

Comp.org.eff.talk

By far, our most widely read forum is the Usenet group, comp.org.eff.talk.

also read eff.talk if you don't have a newsfeed, but do have an e-mail

account reachable via the Net by sending e-mail to eff@eff.org.  In

addition, eff.talk is carried on many BBSs and is echoed across the Fidonet

backbone.

From: jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Jim Lick)

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk

Subject: Re: More songs about buildings and ftp.uu.net

[In response to an upset post about ftp.uu.net's policy of logging 

anonymous ftp logins.]

operates an ftp archive.  The logging here has been going on for a few

months now.  Initially, this was done without notice.  The main README file

The logging was done in response to a number of people abusing their

bypass their local quotas temporarily.  And some people were uploading

nothing against x-rated image files.  However, various local and network

be held personally responsible for any such files found on my site.

Not long after logging was started, someone uploaded about 10 x-rated image

files to the main incoming directory.  Because of the surprising response

from the remote site, I started a dialogue on the matter in the pictures

this discussion, it was decided that a notice of the logging should be

that many sites still do logging, but do not post a notice about it.  The

logging is nothing new, just the notices are.  My notice reads:

============================================================

NOTICE: All transactions are logged.  If you don't like

this, disconnect now.  All the public files are kept in the

could get me in trouble.  This includes illegally copied

obey this warning, your actions will be reported.

============================================================

The physical disk for the ftp area is on ferkel.ucsb.edu.

nstead of piggy, oinker, or cavevax.  (The systems are all

logically equivalent though.)

============================================================

on files, etc.), drop me email at jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu.

============================================================

logging in with '-' as the first character in your password.

they receive the message:

because '-' disables multi-line messages which confuse older ftp clients.

login 'anonymous' as a ftp login, using 'ftp' and 'guest' instead.  This

ended up screwing up mirror programs, archie, and the like, so I changed

things to send the message:

f a user logs in as 'anonymous'.

my server.  Logging is the only effective way to detect misuse quickly and

easily.  It is not meant to be used in a 'Big-Brother' manner.  I receive

the ftp logs in mail every morning from the previous day, and do a quick

ts deleted.

a store.  The potential for abuse is there in each case, but security

cameras are accepted to help prevent crime.  The logs should be accepted by

users to prevent misuse.  If misuse could not be controlled because of the

lack of logs, it would be possible for some ftp archives to be closed down

completely.  Like store cameras, most stores have cameras recording your

actions without you knowing it, and many ftp sites log you without you

knowing about it.

                            Jim Lick

Work: University of California  | Play: 6657 El Colegio #24

      Santa Barbara             |       Isla Vista, CA 93117-4280

      Dept. of Mechanical Engr. |       (805) 968-0189 voice/msg

      2311 Engr II Building     | "when you gonna make up your mind?

      (805) 893-4113            |  when you gonna love you as much

      jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu       |  as i do?" -Tori Amos

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk

Subject: Ownership of messages?

From: mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US (Mike Batchelor)

Got a question about something.  Let me quote a message first, which is why

DOS-based store-and-forward network.  Bonnie Anthony is a member of the

Steering Committee for RIME, and is in a position to speak for the whole

organization:

======================================================================

 BBS: The Holistic BBS - Based on the Premise

Date: 04-11-92 (05:06)             Number: 10096

From: BONNIE ANTHONY               Refer#: 10093

  To: DEKE BARKER                   Recvd: NO

Subj: Free speech??                  Conf: (616) Users

----------------------------------------------------------------------

DB|Assuming for the moment that making certain characterizations is

DB|a valid (RIME-legal) activity, is it against RIME rules to draw

DB|upon specific statements by that individual/group made on other

DB|conferences or networks?  To take an off-the-wall example:  If

DB|President Bush participated on RIME's DEBATE and (say) a debate

DB|conference on another network, and had made statements like "I

DB|support the Choice movement" in discussions on the other network,

DB|would it be inappropriate to quote such statements in refuting

DB|his anti-choice statements on RIME?  (Assume public statements.)

Because the other networks claim ownership of their messages, yes it would

be inappropriate to quote such statements.  You could of course say that

you saw on another network where President Bush had made those statements,

and then you could get permission from him to post his quotes on this

network, as he owns his own material as well.

and positions.

Now in here Deke, because this is a resolution conference, we allow

---

 * MegaMail 2.10 #2:There is no pleasing a serpent

======================================================================

own all messages passing through them?

ownership.  Meanwhile, it doesn't seem to me like anybody can claim

ownership or copyright on messages or articles posted to a public forum (so

My question may be practically moot, however, since the RIME network has

the ability to put my name in an "insulate" file, and prevent my messages

from propagating if they choose to do so.  They do this routinely to

"problem users" who repeatedly violate their rules.

[] ---

[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US -- cerritos.edu!batpad!mike

[] Long Beach, California

EFFSIG

Our latest outpost is on Compuserve Information Services.  CIS can be

forum -- they are:

Sysop Section

EFFector@CIS News

Online

The Matrix

Cyberlaw

NetTech

Networlds

Software

Hardware

Wetware

FutureNets

TechnoRisks

Media Watch

Maps & Guides

Homesteading

Beginner's Mind

The Online section is currently chewing on the concept of electronic

offices.

Topic: Officeless Companies

From: Michael Houdeshell 70004,1044

To: Gerard Van der Leun

Q: If one telecommutes from another state, to which state does one pay

taxes? A colleague just moved from Ohio to Indiana, but still works via

modem for the company in Ohio. Where is the "workplace"? Ohio? Indiana?  In

cyberspace? In the cable? Or should he just split the difference and list

Union City? (Not that he asked me, but it was the first question that

Theory of the four great movements of human populations in terms of

(1) Hunter-gatherer period. Migratory population, movements tied directly

to food supply.

(2) Agricultural revolution. Rural population. Static in relation to food

there. (All that Book O' Genesis talk about sweat and toil and so on.)

(3) Industrial period (early). Beginning of mass movement to cities.  Manor

trades (division of labor) intensified. Work for intermediary commodity:

money. Living and sleeping quarters still physically near work.

(3.5) Ugly backsliding phenomenon of "company towns" (U.S., 19th c.)

(4) Migration from cities to suburbia, farm to cities (and sometimes

Era of Wonderbread and TupperWare.

(5) Migration to virtual workplace. Increasingly ephemeral ties to 

employer.

the population to make each transition. This could be accomplished

took place, and the colonization of suburbia (30-40 years?), that the

movement to the virtual workplace, which just recently began, should be a

fait accompli by 2005, at the latest. Other conjectures? Rebuttals?

Commentary on this crack-brained schema? 

And, we might ask, with an overweening sense of our ability to extrapolate

beyond the point of reasonability, What Next?

As the cognitive distances between work/food and work/place increase--as

they become unyoked, so to speak--and the very idea of "place" becomes

new connectors or intermediaries have emerged: money (between work and

food), the social wall (between city and suburb, rural and urban

concentrations of population), the necessity of the physically mobile

catalyzing the emergence of the telecommuting society) and its automotive

culture. What connecting objects, if nothing more than reified ideas

(recall: money has "fiat" worth, something we tend to forget, unless we're

living in late Weimar or, more recently, in Poland), will serve as

connections between the diffuse loci of service provider (the worker) and

Just seemed like the place to jam on these sorts of topics.

Topic:  Officeless Companies

From:  Robert Cooke, 70541,2233

To:  Michael Houdeshell 70004,1044

Michael...fascinating stuff.  Hard to predict how universal the virtual

alone may take to it now, but people who work communally or who need human

contact may find it harder to adapt.  Will these people accept electronic

ntimacy, or will they need the physical presence of fellow workers and

employers to really feel a part of things?  Anyone caught in a flame war on

a BBS knows that electronic communication is a different breed than face to

face....more open and democratic in some ways, but lacking sorely in body

language.  With newer virtual reality communication, some aspects of face

to face may be simulated, but how much, how soon I can't say...perhaps not

n wide use and accepted by 2005.  So how many of today's workers will want

to forego the office environment?  One possible solution...office co-ops in

local sites.  You and a few dozen of your neighbors have offices in a small

building in your community.  You each have a computerized workstation, you

take coffee breaks together, you have an office softball team, and some of

you go out for beer together once a week.  Only you work for IBM, your

friend works for a law firm, the woman across the aisle is a partner in a

Chartered Accountant firm and the person beside her is a researcher for a

TV show.  You have a communal office environment with the social network

aspects and without having to commute long distances, even though you work

for a slew of disparate companies.  Will it work?

                                                                Robert

Topic:  Officeless Companies

From:  Tim Gorman 71336,1270

To:  Gerard Van der Leun 76711,320

Hey,

Before going whole hog on this, better address the implementation details!

Who pays for the space, how is liability insurance handled, who changes the

mindset of upper mgmt who wants to be able to look out over their domain

and see everyone busily working, etc, who pays for office appliances (fax,

copier, etc), and probably a host of other details.

Not that these are insurmountable, the franchise idea in a later message is

ntriguing, but when negotiating with a large company like I work for, this

s getting close to being "leased" space which is a no-no right now.

Neither does it contribute to the "centralization" of workforces which also

corporations in the central USA).

Don't get me wrong, I am a strong proponent of this decentralized

operation. But we can't even get mgmt to agree to let someone work at home

for an afternoon (sick child, etc) because they don't think full pay should

be given but don't know how to negotiate with the union for a different

accounting system to allow for it.

Go figure.

Tim

The WELL

The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link is the meeting place of Mitchell Kapor and

John Perry Barlow, font of inspiration for "Crime and Puzzlement" and the

birthplace of EFF.  You can reach the WELL at 27 Gate Five Road, Sausalito,

CA 94965, (415)332-4335.  You can also signup online by telnet'ing to

_______________________________________________________________________

Topic 318:  Cable TV and the National Public Network

#84 (of 96) Richard Lawler (richardl)  Mon, Apr 13, '92 _49 Lines

A few comments.

Commercial ISDN products:

few hundred bucks. To compliment this Next has fully integrated support 

for ISDN into their new operating system software.  Additionally new 

Sure you can get close to ISDN's bandwidth using the best analog tricks 

and tools. But the fact of the matter is that the analog phone lines are 

quite limited. Basic ISDN's bidirectional 64Kb/s is analogous to the 

analog phone's unidirectional 1200b/s.  But just as that basic analog 

technology can be compressed and manipulated to achieve 38Kb/s, I 

believe ISDN will be upgraded and enhanced to achieve effective 

throughput well above the capabilities of the most advanced analog 

techniques.

Applications:

Currently its more cost effective for me to send a megabyte of data by 

Fed Ex than by standard 2400 baud modem.  Even when sending that data 

only 50 miles. ISDN could change that equation.  I could send that 

megabyte in about two minutes.  I know few businesses that don't use 

Could broadbased, standardized, basic digital communication like basic 

believe it could work to reverse our ever increasing appetite for fossil 

fuels.  It might reduce two of the pressures that cause this country to 

transportation.  It also might work to reduce the gridlock on our urban 

and suburban freeway systems.

business and the wealthy.  Compare the cost of digital switching systems

cost of infrastructure is everyone's interest: the have's and the have

not's.

American Airlines just reduced their airfares partially in response to

competition from, of all things, video tele-conferencing.  ISDN and 

automobiles.

communications infrastructure that has the potential to change the 

economics and exigencies of our society and business in the coming 

_______________________________________________________________________

Topic 318:  Cable TV and the National Public Network

#85 (of 96) habs (habs)  Mon, Apr 13, '92 _20 Lines

# 84: Richard Lawler (richardl)

communications infrastructure that has the potential to change the 

economics and exigencies of our society and business in the coming 

but ISDN under ADSL could.

back haul is moving data from one site to an other.  An example of this is

for off-site back-up. Something that costs small business $$$, and not

affordable to most home users.

Of course data back haul is not going to be of interest to either of my

_______________________________________________________________________

Topic 318:  Cable TV and the National Public Network

#86 (of 96) Tom Mandel (mandel)  Mon, Apr 13, '92 _25 Lines

ts fares because of "among other things" competition from

video-conferencing.  If that is even a reason, and I doubt it very much, it

s the *least* of all relevant reasons.

communications will sharply reduce the amount of time people spend in cars.

No one thinks that the need to meet f-t-f with other people will go away

because of ISDN, at least not in the next 20 years.  And for the growing

number of people who do and will work more at home, more not less driving

may be the rule of thumb.

magical cures for society's energy and environmental ills.  There is little

to no evidence to suggest that they will be, and there is all sorts of

evidence to foresee interesting problems associated with them.  For

knowledge workers already, the workplace has expanded well outside the

elsewhere, it will become increasingly difficult ever to escape the "new

t is happening and will happen more in the future.)

                       -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

             ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION OFFERS T-SHIRTS

For a $10 donation, EFF will send you a spiffy 100% cotton white T-shirt 

the following on the back:

                         ELECTRONIC FRONTIER

                             FOUNDATION

                            eff@eff.org

                     (50's style graphic with

                 large building sitting on world)

                 Serving Cyberspace since 1990

These are the very same hot t-shirts that sold quickly at CFP-2!

They come in sizes XL and child's S only. Send your $10 check or

money order to

The Electronic Frontier Foundation

ATT:  Rita T. Shirts

Cambridge MA  02141

"What a DEAL!  People will be hard-pressed to find a shirt of the same

quality with such fantastic silk-screening for less than $20 in any

T-shirt store in the country.  (You can quote me on that.)" 

    -- Brendan Kehoe  upon receiving his shirt.

*** Mention that you are an EFFector Online reader, and we will ***

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                 155 Second Street, Cambridge MA 02141

                 Phone:(617)864-0665 FAX:(617)864-0866

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